DerPate
Geocacher
A cache listing is no discussion platform, therefore I'll MOVE the following logs from GC1FPN1 (Munich-Venice-Listing) to this bulletin board, because here already exists another thread, related to this cache http://www.geoclub.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=27238, and some experienced readers might have interest in adding comments.
Please log in English, because some of the authors of the initial posts, listed below, seem to be from foreign countries.
To be discussed:
I wonder about such discussions while having fine weather to DO hiking tours and NOT to make curious discussions, years after approval and not having people with find or DNF ever argued about ratings. But even without feeding the trolls, I want to give you all a chance to post your opinion, but be aware, that I will only think about serious arguments by experienced authors (regarding mountaineering AND g-o-$-ing).
The rating 1.5/3.5 is based on the officially supported tool to support rating by ClayJar. The suggestion after having filled the form was 1/4.25. 4.25 is not possible, therefore T4 but compared to (my) other hiking/mountaineering caches half a star less is the adjusted rating: T3.5
Please keep the following quotes from the Groundspeak support pages at the back of your mind while trying to argue:
"This rating system is subjective."
"Cache ratings vary from one community to the next. A 3-star terrain in British Columbia, Canada is most likely going to be a very different experience from a 3-star terrain in Amsterdam, Holland."
"Ultimately, you alone [the owner] are the best judge for rating your cache."
Additionally the rating tool has some weaknesses, due to the definition of mutually exclusive answers, for which I'm also NOT responsible ... (compare: basic principles of sociology, regarding design of surveys)
Some additional words to 5* rating:
1. I do NOT need to have a 5* cache for my personal ego or statistics
2. I do NOT need to do 5* caches for my personal ego or statistics
3. The "winter rating" is just for fun, because the cache is not available within winter, as shown within the listing. *
4. I'm really afraid about SOME so-called T5* "climbing" teams, collecting those finds, after having heard about their real abilities by an experienced climber. I'm NOT such an experienced person in T5*, therefore I definitely won't judge about those ones, but I claim a sense of proportion for myself, M-V NOT being T5. Neither special equipment needed, nor extreme terrain difficulties to handle.
5. You WILL remember on some of my caches, even without knowing about their rating or having find or DNF. Believe me ...
It's NOT all about numb3rs,
TheGodfather ps:
P.S.: Comment of another cacher, regarding this discussion: "Good to know that disputing about completely unimportant issues is NOT a pure Franconian phenomenon" (R. aka GS.).
* You really think about doing M-V within real winter (incl. high-alpine stages) ?
You had to stay down a year in school, due to some light inabilities in maths ?
Simple, theoretical example: Fly from stage to stage. Moving 1 cubic meter of snow might REALLY be D5/T5 (ever done an avalanche rescue training ?), 10 m³ might be D10/T10, what about D/T for up to 350 m³ per stage ? - oh, and don't forget: using a shovel is NOT supposed to be regular while searching a cache or stages, according to the guidelines
Please log in English, because some of the authors of the initial posts, listed below, seem to be from foreign countries.
To be discussed:
June 4 by [***](755 found)
1,5/3,5?
What happend to the cache/route to decrease it from 5/5?
June 4 by DerPate (some found)
You won't believe: From time to time summer happens
Happy hiking
TheGodfather
P.S.: The alternative rating caused by winter is supposed to be back in October.
July 11 by jomael (484 found)
I have been interested in doing this adventure, but I'm highly disappointed on the new rating. If I would take this challenge on I would like to be rewarded accordingly (not only by experiencing an adventure and beautiful landscapes which I of course would appreciate). But I would also like to be rewarded as a cacher, i.e. of course I want the 5/5. The summer brings with it different struggles than during winter. Yes, it would certainly be more difficult during winter but I don't think this hike would be considered easy even during the summer. Come on, don't be so harsh, leave the 5/5 rating be. Makes no sense with a 1.5/3.5 on this one.
July 11 by Tharandter (934 found)
D1,5 T3,5????????
Ganz bestimmt nicht!!!
http://mitglied.multimania.de/bumbumbike/cache bewertung.htm
D1,5 würde bedeuten dass der Cache innerhalb von 15min zu bewältigen ist! Leute was ist denn los?
July 13 by c45 (484 found)
Alternativ Rating?? First time I've heard about that Every cache is "easier" during the summer, but who changes the rating depending on the season. Besides, summer brings its' own difficulties. Hiking in +35 with mosquitos is not a lot more comfortable than hiking in -15. If you really insisit on having separate ratings, why not instead make two separate caches, only available during each season.
But, I appreciate that you changed the rating before I started (or rather finished) this venture. I would have been so pissed off discovering that the rating had changed after I logged it. I'll put this one on my "ignore"-list.
I wonder about such discussions while having fine weather to DO hiking tours and NOT to make curious discussions, years after approval and not having people with find or DNF ever argued about ratings. But even without feeding the trolls, I want to give you all a chance to post your opinion, but be aware, that I will only think about serious arguments by experienced authors (regarding mountaineering AND g-o-$-ing).
The rating 1.5/3.5 is based on the officially supported tool to support rating by ClayJar. The suggestion after having filled the form was 1/4.25. 4.25 is not possible, therefore T4 but compared to (my) other hiking/mountaineering caches half a star less is the adjusted rating: T3.5
Please keep the following quotes from the Groundspeak support pages at the back of your mind while trying to argue:
"This rating system is subjective."
"Cache ratings vary from one community to the next. A 3-star terrain in British Columbia, Canada is most likely going to be a very different experience from a 3-star terrain in Amsterdam, Holland."
"Ultimately, you alone [the owner] are the best judge for rating your cache."
Additionally the rating tool has some weaknesses, due to the definition of mutually exclusive answers, for which I'm also NOT responsible ... (compare: basic principles of sociology, regarding design of surveys)
Some additional words to 5* rating:
1. I do NOT need to have a 5* cache for my personal ego or statistics
2. I do NOT need to do 5* caches for my personal ego or statistics
3. The "winter rating" is just for fun, because the cache is not available within winter, as shown within the listing. *
4. I'm really afraid about SOME so-called T5* "climbing" teams, collecting those finds, after having heard about their real abilities by an experienced climber. I'm NOT such an experienced person in T5*, therefore I definitely won't judge about those ones, but I claim a sense of proportion for myself, M-V NOT being T5. Neither special equipment needed, nor extreme terrain difficulties to handle.
5. You WILL remember on some of my caches, even without knowing about their rating or having find or DNF. Believe me ...
It's NOT all about numb3rs,
TheGodfather ps:
P.S.: Comment of another cacher, regarding this discussion: "Good to know that disputing about completely unimportant issues is NOT a pure Franconian phenomenon" (R. aka GS.).
* You really think about doing M-V within real winter (incl. high-alpine stages) ?
You had to stay down a year in school, due to some light inabilities in maths ?
Simple, theoretical example: Fly from stage to stage. Moving 1 cubic meter of snow might REALLY be D5/T5 (ever done an avalanche rescue training ?), 10 m³ might be D10/T10, what about D/T for up to 350 m³ per stage ? - oh, and don't forget: using a shovel is NOT supposed to be regular while searching a cache or stages, according to the guidelines